Rob seems like a very likable person, and if we didn't talk Theology, we'd probably get along great. He may be a bit philosophical and quirky for me. Some quotes from the book that I liked:
- "The thought of the word church and the word marketing in the same sentence makes me sick." (pg99)
- "Christian is a great noun and a poor adjective." (pg84)
- "It is one thing to be forgiven; it is another thing to become more and more and more and more the person God made you to be." (pg108)
- "It is one thing to be saved. To believe in Jesus. It is another thing to be healed. It is possible to be saved and miserable. It is possible to be saved and not be a healthy, whole, life-giving person. It is possible for the cross to have done something for a person but not in them. What happened to me is that I realized I believed in Jesus and thought of myself as "saved" and "redeemed" and "reborn", yet massive areas of my life were unaffected. I learned that salvation is for ALL of me. I learned that Jesus wants to heal my soul - now." (pg110)
I only buy into this in as much as the church has strayed from Christ's original purpose. If we reform just to reform, I believe we continue to distance her from her Groom. If we reform just to bring more people in through the doors, then we, once again, have bypassed her purpose. I do agree that the church is in great need of re-form. To find her original form.
The book was a fun read. I personally don't think the Bible is as hard to understand than he makes it out to be; but I also realize that we will never fully comprehend the great depth of the scripture. The Holy Spirit is a sufficient teacher to open our hearts to passages. There's nothing wrong with wrestling with the scripture, but when a teacher like Rob airs out his doubts about passages, he doesn't understand the damage and disservice he does to the scripture. Rob has a huge following. Many would take anything he says without comparing it to the light of the scripture. That's the dangerous part. On the other hand, many would not even read a word Rob Bell writes because of something they may have heard about him. I'm somewhere in the middle. I found a lot of his thoughts in his book that I disagreed with. I also found some parts in his book that really challenged me. I could not be an attendee at his church, but I may read more of his work. To sum it up, I'll quote another passage from his book about his book; "Test it. Probe it. Do that to this book. Don't swallow it uncritically. Think about it. Wrestle with it. Just because I'm a Christian and I'm trying to articulate a Christian world-view doesn't mean I've got it nailed." (pg 87) Anyone who reads, watches or listens to Bell or any other preacher/teacher of the gospel needs to keep this in mind.
The second book I just finished last night is "Jesus for President: Politics for Ordinary Radicals" co-authored by Shane Claiborne and Chris Haw. Another interesting read. This is a book I had no intentions of reading, but I saw it displayed on the "New Books" shelf at the library. The title actually drew me in. Shane and crew definitely fit the radical label. Not entirely in a bad way. He wrote a lot of things in the book that challenged me also. The most that I got out of the book is "how are we living out the gospel"? Honestly. We hear about taking care of the sick, the poor, the imprisoned. But what are we doing about it? Now there's much more to the book than what I just stated. Much of it that, once again, I thought he took much liberty in his construing of scriptures. But the challenging parts are truly that, challenging. In an over-indulging society, we have really neglected many of the commands and examples of Christ to go to and meet the needs of the needy. Even if it means getting dirty or going without a meal. I'm guilty! But it's not enough for me to just admit my guilt, how will I change? I can't say right now. I don't know right now.
A few quotes I enjoyed from the book:
- "Laws enforced by the sword control behavior but cannot change hearts, no matter how sharp the sword is. The redemption of the cross does what laws and bullets and bombs can never do - bring transformation of evildoers and enemies." quote from Greg Boyd, Myth of a Christian Nation
- "Another practice is to avoid the language of hype. "Engaging culture" is a big goal for Christians these days. And the best way to do this, so the logic goes, is with the style of the culture at large. We'll need some websites to change the world, and so we'll need some catchy titles, phrases, and images to create "a movement." And of course any good movement has T-shirts, hip words, bumper stickers and slogans (oh yes, and wrist bands).
The book goes through the history of God's people. From Adam and Eve through the Hebrew people and God's deliverance from Egypt to His people demanding a king. He tries to establish an understanding of the start of mans establishment. And how we put our faith in trust in these establishments. He speaks a lot to this. About where we put our faith in trust.
I enjoyed the book. I may also read more of his work.
With both books, I don't think I would ever give them to a knew convert or to someone who wants to know more about the gospel. I think that these books need to be read, once again, in the light of the scripture. I think that these books may confuse and/or frustrate someone not well grounded in their faith. They were both interesting, quick reads. Both were challenging at times. I don't know if I got enough out of them to hold a Bible study based on them. I feel I would do more skipping and correcting than actually teaching. Just remember to read and listen to all things in comparison to scripture. If it doesn't measure up, then don't let it "re-form" your theology and doctrine. Take what's good and pass on the rest.
I may post more on my thoughts of these books as time passes and things come to mind. God bless.
6 comments:
Maybe we should spend more time reading Scripture (God's Word) and be challenged by it. What about praying? What happened to long prayer times so we could talk to God and He could talk to us? Running to the arm of flesh ( new fangled ideals) will lead us to the broad way. I wonder if people spend more time in christian books than they do their Bibles. If the only time they read the Bible is Sunday or Wednesday or a quote in a book I can understand why they are deceived. If they don't have the power of God in their lives maybe it is because they don't have the power of the true Word in their lives.
Good thoughts on the books, Troy. I actually have not read Jesus for President, but I am reading Shane's book Irresistible Revolution. It is more of a book that challenges us to actually live out the call in Scripture to be like missionaries to those around us. I would recommend reading it for that stimulation alone.
Sorry for the second comment. After thinking about it a little longer, I just wanted to throw out this possible way of viewing the audience for Scripture.
Scripture was written for the original audience with an original intention. This meaning can be discovered sometimes without any real knowledge of the setting or culture. Sometimes this meaning cannot be understood without the original context. After knowing the original meaning of Scripture we must rely on the Holy Spirit to help us transfer the principle of Scripture into our reality. How is that principle lived out? What areas of my life are not in line with that principle? What do I need to change? Although the meaning and/or principle never changes, the practical application of it might throughout the many years and through the many different people. Loving our neighbor will mean something completely different on a practical level to you as it does me because our neighbors are different people. Despite the changing applications, the Scripture is unwavering in its principles. Applying those principles throughout the generations and different locations does take a different face some times, although other times it does not.
Regan,
Although the original audience is certainly applicable, I feel the Holy Spirit who inspired the Scriptures also had us in mind as well as future generations. I do agree that loving our neighbor may apply differently in different circumstances. That's the amazing thing about the Scriptures; it's application is so precise and yet general at the same time. The same passage may speak newly to you every time you read it.
As for Shane's other book, I just picked it up from the library earlier this week. I'll probably be finished by the end of the weekend. It's a quick and interesting read. On a personal note, some of the humor seems a bit sophomoric. It is challenging, though.
And keep posting updates about the skin cancer. I'm praying for you.
Troy
Troy –
Though I do not want to discount the role of the Holy Spirit to speak throughout time, the fact is the Bible is written by human people in a specific time, place, and circumstance (context). For example, if I write you a letter and tell you a story, someone who comes around 100 years later will still need to go back and find out what was going on in the culture before they can properly understand the depth of that story. Can s/he get the general gist? Sure – but not the entire story. The fact is, the human authors were writing to a certain group of people and when we rip it from that context and immediately put ourselves in it we deprive it of its original intent and thus lose original meaning.
In regard to the divine role in the Scripture, I think I disagree with what you mean by “God had us in mind.” There are truths that surpass time because God created the world to function in a certain way. So, what was true for the 1st century CE hold true today. God make us to love one another and love God. That holds true for all humankind for all time. As you and Regan both pointed out, what that looks like will change, but is a constant truth. I guess if you phrase it, “God had all of humanity in mind” it seems less prideful than the sentiment that “God wrote the Bible for me (and me alone being the implication)”.
I could be mistaken, but I think we are probably meaning the same thing but approaching it and saying it differently. Although it might come down to us disagreeing on the importance of the original meaning of a passage. I guess we will find out.
"The same passage may speak newly to you every time you read it."
I would say that this is the work of the Holy Spirit in the reader's life, not some spiritual residue left over from the inspiration of the original writer that has withstood translation or even resides in the original language, if we even have that. That is the amazing thing about Scripture being the word of God and us being spirit-filled followers. God can use a passage of Scripture with a completely different meaning to convict us of something that was not originally intended. (I am now getting into my next blog post so please excuse me if I repeat myself next week) The same can be done with our interaction with the world around us. God can use an experience in reading a book, watching a movie, planting a garden, helping the needy, or any other earthly act - not just the "good" ones - to teach us some truth about him.
However, that does not negligate that the passage we are reading has an actual original meaning that might not even line up with what the Spirit is leading us to understand. The original meanings of Scripture are what keep us in check and allows us to test the Spirit as is described in I John 4:1. If not, then any interpretation that I come up with would be legitimate without any source of truth to check it against. That just cannot be the case because a multitude of people come up with a multitude of different meanings, yet there is a truth. How could we test a "spirit's" guidance if we believe there is no original meaning to test it against? It is that original meaning that is the spiritual testing point. If not, then there really is no test to check whether what we believe the Spirit is leading us into is really from God. We are just left to our whims and our assurance that what we believe is true despite other people believing otherwise.
And thanks for your prayers. Things are looking good.
Post a Comment